It was about a month or so ago at the RDBA virtual experience that I met our next guest. Chef Barton Seaver is a seafood expert. World Oceans Day is coming up in just a few days from now. So I couldn't think of a better person to talk to about sustainability, about seafood and with the background, that chef Barton has.
It was about a month or so ago at the RDBA virtual experience that I met our next guest. Chef Barton Seaver is a seafood expert. World Oceans Day is coming up in just a few days from now. So I couldn't think of a better person to talk to about sustainability, about seafood and with the background, that chef Barton has.
Welcome to Lost in the Supermarket. It was about a month or so ago at the RDBA virtual experience that I met our next guest. Chef Barton S eaver is a seafood expert. World Oceans Day is coming up in just a few days from now. So I couldn't think of a better person to talk to about sustainability, about seafood a nd w ith t he b ackground, that chef you have, you're the right guy for this, so welcome to Lost i n the Supermarket.
Barton:Well, thanks. Excited to be here with you and talking my favorite thing, fish, fish fish.
Phil:So before we talk about sustainability, let's talk a little bit about your background. So you've worked in some of the most famous restaurants. You've also worked on fishing boats. Um, what, what made you, you know, really refocus all of your efforts on seafood versus being a restaurant tour?
Barton:Well, to me, just from a ingredient category as a chef, seafood is as interesting as it gets the diversity of taste, textures, colors, seasons narratives, regions that are represented by seafood and the deep history around it. Just captivated me as a, as a cook, uh, and as a cook with, you know, a curiosity, I wanted to just understand as much as I could about those ingredients. And so that led me travels all over the world and, and a lot of fun, just really understanding it, getting to know it firsthand. In, in that process, I began to understand the impacts that our choices as chefs and a s consumers were having on the oceans and on the communities that we rely on to provide food for our tables and that growing awareness, u m, started off as s ort o f in the typical sort of environmentalism aspect of bad human b ad. We are the problem, you know, get better. But you know, if we can hurt and make sick through the choices we make for dinner, the other side of that coin is that we can heal and we can restore. And so I began just looking at sustainability i s really this empowering, wonderful conversation about how, how do we ensure the endurance of thriving human communities a nd resilient ecosystems and yeah, I mean, what a fun way to spend a day or a life.
Phil:So when I talk to people about seafood, you know, regular consumers, I hear more questions that I hear answers. Why do we have, you know, this lack of knowledge about seafood? Um, certainly it's very versatile. It's very easy to cook. It's delicious. It's, it's loaded with good nutrition. But the average consumer still is eating a tiny bit of seafood as compared to beef or chicken, for example.
Barton:Well, there's a number of reasons for this. I, I wrote one of my books called American Seafood. And in that I, I explored some of the, it it's a book on the history of the American seafood industry. And I explored some of the, sort of the long term trends on that. I know we started this, this nation settler nation was founded upon the backs of God and men and women that fished them. And it wasn't until, you know, we turned inland, we turned away from the tempestuous waves of the north Atlantic to focus on another ocean that rippled with Amber waves of grain. And we became an agrarian nation. It was always sort of beneath our aspirations to eat seafood, eating beef, eating chicken, eating pork was seen really as, as an achievement. And so there's sort of long been this cultural, maybe unspoken cultural trend towards this, but also seafood is more perishable. Seafood is more diverse, seafood is more seasonal, and, and, you know, it comes from wild fisheries until very recently when farm fish was introduced. So it was just a lot, there was just a lot more variables to it. There's a lot more to know about seafood than there is to know about hamburger or pork chops or chicken. And so it's not that I think we don't know enough as consumers it's that I think we just get confused by all that there is to know that really the, the key to understanding seafood is, is actually step back and to simplify. And once we do, it's a very simple protein, it's a wonderful addition to our diets that helps sustain our good health. And from an environmental perspective, I'd like to see more seafood on more plates and a reduction of land animal proteins. So.
Phil:And absolutely when it comes to nutrition, it's, it's critical that we eat more seafood. Why is world oceans day so important?
Barton:Despite the fact that we live on a mostly blue planet and by mostly blue, let me say that 99% of the livable space on this planet is underwater 99%. 71% of the surface of this planet is water. Uh, that we have a world ocean's day is a little, uh, you know, I love celebrating it, but I, I, wow. I mean, the importance of the oceans to the human experience is it cannot be understated. And world ocean's day is just a great opportunity for us to maybe turn our daily attentions, which are, you know, just on the activities of life and maybe, you know, beg us to gaze out wistfully at the wine dark sea, and to think about contemplate how it impacts us, how it affects us and what we can really aspire to achieve through the oceans in terms of sustained and enduring human communities.
Phil:So what I'm hearing from you is you'd much prefer that everyday was World Oceans Day.
Barton:Yes. I think that we would be better off if we just conceptually and just from a societal standpoint, understood the ecosystems that we live in better. I think that when we understand the value of that, which is not only near us, but maybe beyond our, our daily, our daily view, then we act in interest of those larger systems and understanding how the ocean impacts humans I think is, is an important thing. And I wish that well, yeah, I just wish it was a, a greater part of our daily realities to think about.
Phil:So when we pick up the newspaper or TV, we're constantly seeing reports on how we're polluting the ocean with whether it's plastic or garbage or anything else. What's the impact that that's truly having on, on oceans and on fish?
Barton:You know, I, that, that science is still is still being done. We certainly know that the, the oceans are full of trash. It's just things flow downstream and into the ocean, out of sight, out of mind for us and for too long, we've sort of abused the ocean as just this catchall that we can make things disappear into. Plastics in particular are an issue, microplastics, which wash out of our clothing and down the drain, et cetera. I mean, there's all sorts of products that contribute to this, the damage it's doing to the ocean, aside from just the aesthetic, damage that when we see a polluted beach, we don't really know exactly how microplastics in particular are going to affect are affecting sea life populations, and therefore by extension us as well, you know, with we're eating those seafood, I haven't seen much data right now that suggests significant health concern with that. But I'm not sure we we're looking in the right places for that yet, or that we fully under. We certainly don't fully understand it. It's certainly something to keep, you know, an eye on. Yeah. But also the ocean isn't the only victim of this, I mean, there is microplastics in the air that we are breathing, there's microplastics in almost all of the food that we're eating to various degrees. So I guess the, the takeaway from this is let's not, I fear that the focus of such conversations will end up being about how the, the danger of, of seafood or, or that somehow this is a polluted resource when in fact the conversation really needs to be about why is there pollution there in, in the first place. And I'd love to see us stop using a lot of plastic, right.
Phil:We all would, we all would. Um, so let's shift gears to the supermarket. Yeah. What do supermarkets need to do to raise awareness and consumption of seafood with their shoppers?
Barton:Just celebrate it first and foremost, you know, people go to the grocery store as a, as part of a, it's a cultural mechanism for us. It's a cultural experience in many ways, but at the end of the day also, we're just, it's, it's a, it's an errand, it's a chore something we have to do. So I think meet people where they are, you know, people are not necessarily going to the grocery store to be educated or to be, you know, overwhelmed with information. They, you know, it's, it's something we have to do and we need to make it convenient for them, but ultimately food is a celebration, right. And, uh, grocery stores do a very good job at promoting, meals and ideas, gatherings, et cetera, the seasons. Um, so I'd just like to see seafood represented more as, as part of those promotions, whether it's cross promotions with wine sales and pairings with Savignon Blanc, whether it's you know, celebrating easy, canned, delicious, sustainable seafood, that's super easy and convenient to make your kids lunch with, as I do every morning, just etcetera, I think there's so many different narratives around seafood that can capture our attention that I would love to see happen. And, especially I think as grocery stores move into, you know, prepared foods, and that's become such an important part of the grocery and American retail experience, I would love to see seafood integrated more in those locations. Cuz I think the culinary ingenuity that can be expressed through, prepared goods is, is so wonderful and such a wonderful sort of entry point for people to integrate more seafood into their, into their diets.
Phil:When I go into a supermarket, I'll see, oh probably, you know, 30, 35 feet of a meat case. And if I'm lucky, I'll see, you know, five to seven feet of a seafood case. And when I look in the seafood case, I see salmon occasionally I'll see trout, I see a lot of shrimp, um, sometimes crab legs. How do we get, you know, the supermarket to understand, I believe in, in one of your restaurants at one point you were serving like 70, some odd different species during the course of a year of, of seafood. How do we get the supermarket, to be more seasonal with seafood to really promote it and not just have the, you know, five or six staples that are the best sellers today?
Barton:Well, that gets to a larger sustainability paradigm, which is that. So your question gets to a larger sustainability paradigm, which is that for too long, we have made demands of the ocean that 95% of this seafood that we do eat comes from only about 10 species of seafood. And yet the oceans are this incredibly vast, you know, diverse bounties ecosystem of which we, we place our demand on just such a small fraction of simply put the, the concept of the catch of the day. You know, just eating what the ocean provides is a major tool towards achieving sustainability. Simply put, you know, working within a system is going to work better than working upon it, and making demands of it. Now that said that sort of diversity doesn't necessarily work on a national scale. We're talking about regional availability and D diversities and I'd love to see grocery stores do that, celebrate local flavors, uh, whether this is, you know, crabs in the Chesapeake, but also weak fish and macro and striped bass and flounder and clams. And I mean, I could go on and on and yellow perch and all these other delicious species that are so wonderful, but fall outside of the normal Canon of recipes that we we see on Pinterest or wherever else. Um, so I understand that, you know, these species are not gonna have a national presence necessarily, and that requires a bit more training. Of course, you know, on part of the staff, salmon shrimp, they sell themselves, right? People come into the store knowing that they want those things. So I think there's sort of this opportunity to just say, Hey, you know, the most exciting part of our store is the seafood counter, cuz you never know what you're gonna find come on in this week and just check out what we've got. And I just think that that creates a sense of excitement, a sense of exploration and discovery. And we know that consumers want that we're open to trying all sorts of new flavors and new sauces and spice, blends and mixes and new cuisines. And we're willing to try all that, but we're not willing to try a fish that we've not tried before. Llet's again sort of meet consumers where they are and play into that and arouse their sense of excitement about this.
Phil:So chef, last question. How are you gonna celebrate World Oceans Day?
Barton:Well, I'll probably wake up and stare out my bedroom window at the ocean and, and feel very thankful for living where I do the tide might turn. Yeah. World ocean still let's see. Low tide will probably be about mid-morning. So we'll have actually no high tide will be about mid-morning. So we'll have a nice cooling breeze coming in off the water glistening in the sun. I will definitely eat some seafood, probably three times that day as we normally eat seafood twice. But, um, I think the biggest thing that I'm gonna do is I'm gonna take my two little boys. I got a two year old and a five year old and we walk down to the beach and we just stand there and give thanks for this giant system that is so delicious and so supportive of all that we do. And I live up here in Maine on the ragged jagged delicious coast and the, the hum of diesel engines and the lobster industry and clamors and muscle farmers all around us in my neighborhood. I'm just gonna give thanks for seafood and all that. It does for us, all the jobs that it provides, the culture, it connects us to how it sustains our bodies and well tells a story that I wanna be a part of.
Phil:Well chef, thanks so much for joining us today on was the supermarket and happy World's Ocean Day.
Barton:To you as well. Thanks so much for having me.